kumarc123
05-08 05:51 PM
You can still go to court against the congress, that is what is the freedom of constitution in this country.
Since Obama administration has a open door policy, why don't we take a appointment and discuss this issue ?
We should pursue this with a litigation, PAPPU, how about these lawyers who keep flashing their advertisements up here, can we use their help?
Since Obama administration has a open door policy, why don't we take a appointment and discuss this issue ?
We should pursue this with a litigation, PAPPU, how about these lawyers who keep flashing their advertisements up here, can we use their help?
wallpaper caterpillar cartoon
legal_gc_seeker
05-11 05:31 PM
Guys,
VISA BULLETIN FOR JUNE 2009 sets back EB2 priority back to 01JAN00.
Some thing needs to be done. The easist will be not counting ebdependents in ebquota. This should be very easy. There is no INA law linking ebquota with ebdependents.
I need IV Core help for this.
I don't think this is as simple as you say. Probably this would not affect young married couple who may have very young children and some may not even have one. This will affect children of those immigrants who are reaching 18 or 21. The law says you can get the dependent GC only if you are under 18 or 21. All of them will be affected. (I was not sure of the age if it was 18 or 21). They will be in limbo.
The best thing would be not to count them in any quota like they do for immediate relatives of citizens.
VISA BULLETIN FOR JUNE 2009 sets back EB2 priority back to 01JAN00.
Some thing needs to be done. The easist will be not counting ebdependents in ebquota. This should be very easy. There is no INA law linking ebquota with ebdependents.
I need IV Core help for this.
I don't think this is as simple as you say. Probably this would not affect young married couple who may have very young children and some may not even have one. This will affect children of those immigrants who are reaching 18 or 21. The law says you can get the dependent GC only if you are under 18 or 21. All of them will be affected. (I was not sure of the age if it was 18 or 21). They will be in limbo.
The best thing would be not to count them in any quota like they do for immediate relatives of citizens.
sravani
05-11 04:49 PM
I knew one of my friends on H1-B started an LLC, sponsored his wife H1 and now his wife is maintaining the company.
2011 cute caterpillar cartoon.
sidshar
05-24 08:45 AM
sent.
more...
vdlrao
09-10 02:18 AM
Hello,
Don't like EB-3 dates...but looking at EB-2 dates, does this mean that from now on we will see only forward movement in EB-2 I/C dates?
If the first month of the new year didn't retrogress, would every month see a movement of week or two? Or keeping in great USCIS tradition, this is just another 'fluke'? ;)
Ya I presume your assumption is right regarding EB-2 forward movement. But on a whole the EB-2 India/China dates havent forwarded up to my predictions. But we could expect a steady and consistent movement of EB-2 India/China ahead.
Don't like EB-3 dates...but looking at EB-2 dates, does this mean that from now on we will see only forward movement in EB-2 I/C dates?
If the first month of the new year didn't retrogress, would every month see a movement of week or two? Or keeping in great USCIS tradition, this is just another 'fluke'? ;)
Ya I presume your assumption is right regarding EB-2 forward movement. But on a whole the EB-2 India/China dates havent forwarded up to my predictions. But we could expect a steady and consistent movement of EB-2 India/China ahead.
chanduy9
07-06 09:46 AM
DEAD FISH DEAD FISH!! :p
Guys please send the flowers...I know we dont have very good publicity like others...we need to find the way to get the media atten. One reporter might be intrested in our news not evry one, to get evey body atten we need to do it in samrt and in different way..guys bunch of people are thinking the flower day is good, other think it is not, we have this problem from ages.
If one send flowers or e-mail it is not news..if every body joins it is gonna be a greate news.
join the flower drive.
just my idea.
Thanks,
Chandra.
Guys please send the flowers...I know we dont have very good publicity like others...we need to find the way to get the media atten. One reporter might be intrested in our news not evry one, to get evey body atten we need to do it in samrt and in different way..guys bunch of people are thinking the flower day is good, other think it is not, we have this problem from ages.
If one send flowers or e-mail it is not news..if every body joins it is gonna be a greate news.
join the flower drive.
just my idea.
Thanks,
Chandra.
more...
lost_in_migration
05-01 04:52 PM
simple1 copy INA in your very 1st and 2nd post or else it would be lost somewhere halfway.
great, thanks to lost_in_migration for posting INA.
sorry snathan I should have posted it earlier myself. it will answer all your questions.
great, thanks to lost_in_migration for posting INA.
sorry snathan I should have posted it earlier myself. it will answer all your questions.
2010 Caterpillar Cartoon Bugs
ThinkTwice
07-20 12:54 AM
Did you know that Aman Kapoor the founder of IV has contributed $64000 of his personal money towards the efforts of IV? Yes that is correct Sixty Four Thousand USD. http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jul2007/db20070718_012859.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index _businessweek+exclusives
I was dumbfounded when I first found this out. The man must have real conviction and courage and belief in himself and this effort to do such a selfless act and I am not even talking about the hours and hours of time, mental energy, physical stress and emotional capital he must have invested into OUR effort and I am not talking about all that because that is immeasurable and there is not much we can do to repay all that back but there is something we can do.
Please take out your wallet and repay IV core members who have contributed selflessly to OUR cause.
Every one of us has benefited in some way or the other because of our association to IV and who do we have to thank but the core team who have put so much on the line for OUR cause.
Please join in this effort to reimburse the expenses incurred by IV core to fight for OUR cause.
I was dumbfounded when I first found this out. The man must have real conviction and courage and belief in himself and this effort to do such a selfless act and I am not even talking about the hours and hours of time, mental energy, physical stress and emotional capital he must have invested into OUR effort and I am not talking about all that because that is immeasurable and there is not much we can do to repay all that back but there is something we can do.
Please take out your wallet and repay IV core members who have contributed selflessly to OUR cause.
Every one of us has benefited in some way or the other because of our association to IV and who do we have to thank but the core team who have put so much on the line for OUR cause.
Please join in this effort to reimburse the expenses incurred by IV core to fight for OUR cause.
more...
franklin
07-07 09:59 PM
Macaca,
Franklin is a her not him. She is our Northern California group coordinator. I will convey your message but I am pretty sure she might already have gotten it by reading it here on the forum
Franklin here - don't worry Macaca I just like reminding people occasionally when things get out of order :)
I couldn't make it unfortunately (short notice and had, ironically, my FP appointment at the same time in a different city). But I'm glad that some people did.
I guess I'm the unofficial coordinator of Nor Cal I just get conference calls together every now and then :rolleyes:
Franklin is a her not him. She is our Northern California group coordinator. I will convey your message but I am pretty sure she might already have gotten it by reading it here on the forum
Franklin here - don't worry Macaca I just like reminding people occasionally when things get out of order :)
I couldn't make it unfortunately (short notice and had, ironically, my FP appointment at the same time in a different city). But I'm glad that some people did.
I guess I'm the unofficial coordinator of Nor Cal I just get conference calls together every now and then :rolleyes:
hair Butterfly#39;s cartoon 2 - search
gee_see
10-01 04:13 PM
There was no discussion on invoking AC21 where the salary is lower than specified in LC. For example wages for LC filed in bay area will be higher than other places and if one wishes to move to work location where prevaling wages are lower compare with original LC location. What would USCIS position on this since AC21 does not talk about work location.
wage for Original LC location in Santa Clara:- 90k
New job offer in mid west:- 70K ( much higher than prevaling wages)
Please comment
wage for Original LC location in Santa Clara:- 90k
New job offer in mid west:- 70K ( much higher than prevaling wages)
Please comment
more...
anilsal
11-21 07:10 PM
Hi Mehul, i'm really sorry to hear your situation. I was researching some stuff & since you are from Fiji & with the political unrest in your home country, can you take political asylum since you were kinda forced to leave the country. I mean everyone knows about the coup that took place in your country. below is a link that gives you more information on Political Asylum maybe this would expedite the process for you.
http://trac.syr.edu/immigration/reports/161/
Let me know if i can help you in any other way!!!
thanx
This is another avenue. I do not think it is based on country of birth, I mean Asylum.
http://trac.syr.edu/immigration/reports/161/
Let me know if i can help you in any other way!!!
thanx
This is another avenue. I do not think it is based on country of birth, I mean Asylum.
hot images caterpillar cartoon
JunRN
10-08 06:29 PM
I don't believe it must be FIFO...just as what I told in the other forum.
It must be:
FIFT - First In, First Touch
and then;
FCFO - First Complete, First out
(Complete: approvable and PD current)
It must be:
FIFT - First In, First Touch
and then;
FCFO - First Complete, First out
(Complete: approvable and PD current)
more...
house Caterpillar Mascot Cartoon
akhilmahajan
02-09 02:18 PM
Thanks a lot kate123.
Grand Total - $328
Come on folks lets help IV, to get things done for US.
IV is I/WE.
GO IV GO. TOGETHER WE CAN.
25$
Transaction Id: 49C78926VG6647649
Contributed via paypal
Thank you all,
Keep up the good work.
Grand Total - $328
Come on folks lets help IV, to get things done for US.
IV is I/WE.
GO IV GO. TOGETHER WE CAN.
25$
Transaction Id: 49C78926VG6647649
Contributed via paypal
Thank you all,
Keep up the good work.
tattoo caterpillar cartoon
gclongwaytogo
10-09 03:20 PM
Checks not cleared....No receipt. Nothing:mad::(:confused::(:mad:
more...
pictures caterpillar cartoon bugs.
EndlessWait
07-20 11:41 AM
So pls contribute.
I pledge $100.
I pledge $100.
dresses cute caterpillar cartoon.
caydee
07-09 11:16 AM
A news article from San Jose Mercury News...........
http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_6331029?nclick_check=1
(apologies for posting this here. I couldnt find the link to News Article Thread - 3. Moderators please move this to the right thread)
IMMIGRATION REFORM'S COLLAPSE GETS FIRMS LOOKING ABROAD
By Frank Davies
MediaNews Washington Bureau
Article Launched: 07/09/2007 01:29:41 AM PDT
WASHINGTON - Reeling from the collapse of a massive immigration bill, major tech firms plan to press for more visas and green cards for foreign workers - one element of the failed legislation - but admit they face political resistance and an uncertain future.
"We face a serious problem this year, Congress knows that, and we just have to keep pushing," said Robert Hoffman, an Oracle lobbyist. He said restrictive caps on H-1B and L visas for skilled workers and the long waiting time for green cards for some were limiting companies' growth and sending some jobs overseas.
But Ralph Hellmann, who lobbied on the Senate bill for the Information Technology Industry trade group, sounded an upbeat note. He said a separate measure increasing visas and green cards "is probably a better product now that we don't have to ride on a compre hensive bill."
Hoffman, who co-chairs Compete America, a coalition of businesses seeking immigration reform, said he hopes to meet with key congressional leaders on the issue, including Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., sponsor of the failed Senate bill, and Rep. Zoe Lofgren, the San Jose Democrat who chairs the immigration subcommittee in the House.
"We'll have to see what's in the realm of the doable, whether it's long-term or a stop-gap," Hoffman said.
Lofgren sounded a note of caution Friday, saying progress on any component of the comprehensive bill may be difficult.
"We're in an assessment phase right now, and I don't know what can proceed - that's up to a very diverse group of people in the House and Senate," she said. Other provisions of the failed immigration bill have champions who now see an opening for separate legislation.
Taking separate action
Sen. Dianne Feinstein, a California Democrat, said the shortage in farm labor is a crisis that means her "ag jobs" proposal for more foreign workers "should be moved before any other immigration-related legislation."
She said she will work with Sen. Larry Craig, R-Idaho, a co-sponsor, and industry and farmworker groups to push soon for that bill.
Lofgren said "there's a compelling case for the Dream Act," another part of the comprehensive bill that would allow some children of illegal immigrants to achieve legal status and make it easier to enter college or the military.
Several South Bay students last week launched a fast to show their support for the Dream Act, and they demonstrated Tuesday in front of Lofgren's San Jose office.
Immigration hard-liners who oppose any legalization process for undocumented workers said the failure of the Senate bill shows the need to improve border security and workplace enforcement.
Rep. Brian Bilbray, a San Diego Republican who chairs the House Immigration Reform Caucus, said a congressional consensus exists to pursue those goals this year.
Workforce in jeopardy
Meanwhile, thousands of highly skilled visa-holders who filed paperwork last month for green cards had a more immediate problem this week. Because of a dispute between the State Department and Immigration Services, and a huge backlog of applications, they were told no more green cards are available this year.
Large employers, including some in the tech sector, were told this year by the Bush administration to help pass the overall bill to secure some of their key goals. Those include almost doubling the number of H-1B visas to 115,000 a year, exempting 40,000 people with higher degrees from any restrictions, and speeding up the employer-based green card system for workers already here.
With the demise of the bill and uncertainty over future immigration, some California companies may shift operations to other countries, Lofgren said. Microsoft announced plans Thursday to open a software development center in Vancouver, British Columbia, which would "allow the company to recruit and retain highly skilled people affected by the immigration issues in the U.S."
In 2006, Microsoft secured 3,117 H-1B visas for its workers - the third-highest total - according to the Department of Homeland Security.
Lou Gellos, a Microsoft spokesman, said immigration uncertainty was "an issue, but not the defining reason" for opening the Canada center.
Criticism has also mounted over abuses and fraud in the H-1B visa system.
Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., citing government surveys, said that "job shops" and other brokers were misusing the system to bypass U.S. workers, bring in foreign workers for substandard wages, and outsource some jobs.
"Our immigration policy should seek to complement our U.S. workforce, not replace it," Durbin said last month during the Senate debate.
System left in limbo
After behind-the-scenes negotiations, tech companies acceded to some of the proposals from Durbin and Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, to improve oversight and enforcement of the H-1B program by the Department of Labor. All companies would have to pledge to seek U.S. workers first for openings, and if an employer's visa-holders who are paid entry-level wages exceeded 30 percent of its workforce, a Labor Department audit would be automatic.
That agreement is now in limbo. If a serious push for an increase in visas makes progress, Durbin would want to include his proposals, an aide said.
Hoffman said tech representatives would agree to more enforcement "that is not punitive."
Lofgren, who represents tech executives and workers, said she could support "reforms and changes" in the visa system.
"It needs a good review - I've never thought that just increasing the numbers was in the cards," she said.
Contact Frank Davies at fdavies@mercurynews.com or (202) 662-8921.
http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_6331029?nclick_check=1
(apologies for posting this here. I couldnt find the link to News Article Thread - 3. Moderators please move this to the right thread)
IMMIGRATION REFORM'S COLLAPSE GETS FIRMS LOOKING ABROAD
By Frank Davies
MediaNews Washington Bureau
Article Launched: 07/09/2007 01:29:41 AM PDT
WASHINGTON - Reeling from the collapse of a massive immigration bill, major tech firms plan to press for more visas and green cards for foreign workers - one element of the failed legislation - but admit they face political resistance and an uncertain future.
"We face a serious problem this year, Congress knows that, and we just have to keep pushing," said Robert Hoffman, an Oracle lobbyist. He said restrictive caps on H-1B and L visas for skilled workers and the long waiting time for green cards for some were limiting companies' growth and sending some jobs overseas.
But Ralph Hellmann, who lobbied on the Senate bill for the Information Technology Industry trade group, sounded an upbeat note. He said a separate measure increasing visas and green cards "is probably a better product now that we don't have to ride on a compre hensive bill."
Hoffman, who co-chairs Compete America, a coalition of businesses seeking immigration reform, said he hopes to meet with key congressional leaders on the issue, including Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., sponsor of the failed Senate bill, and Rep. Zoe Lofgren, the San Jose Democrat who chairs the immigration subcommittee in the House.
"We'll have to see what's in the realm of the doable, whether it's long-term or a stop-gap," Hoffman said.
Lofgren sounded a note of caution Friday, saying progress on any component of the comprehensive bill may be difficult.
"We're in an assessment phase right now, and I don't know what can proceed - that's up to a very diverse group of people in the House and Senate," she said. Other provisions of the failed immigration bill have champions who now see an opening for separate legislation.
Taking separate action
Sen. Dianne Feinstein, a California Democrat, said the shortage in farm labor is a crisis that means her "ag jobs" proposal for more foreign workers "should be moved before any other immigration-related legislation."
She said she will work with Sen. Larry Craig, R-Idaho, a co-sponsor, and industry and farmworker groups to push soon for that bill.
Lofgren said "there's a compelling case for the Dream Act," another part of the comprehensive bill that would allow some children of illegal immigrants to achieve legal status and make it easier to enter college or the military.
Several South Bay students last week launched a fast to show their support for the Dream Act, and they demonstrated Tuesday in front of Lofgren's San Jose office.
Immigration hard-liners who oppose any legalization process for undocumented workers said the failure of the Senate bill shows the need to improve border security and workplace enforcement.
Rep. Brian Bilbray, a San Diego Republican who chairs the House Immigration Reform Caucus, said a congressional consensus exists to pursue those goals this year.
Workforce in jeopardy
Meanwhile, thousands of highly skilled visa-holders who filed paperwork last month for green cards had a more immediate problem this week. Because of a dispute between the State Department and Immigration Services, and a huge backlog of applications, they were told no more green cards are available this year.
Large employers, including some in the tech sector, were told this year by the Bush administration to help pass the overall bill to secure some of their key goals. Those include almost doubling the number of H-1B visas to 115,000 a year, exempting 40,000 people with higher degrees from any restrictions, and speeding up the employer-based green card system for workers already here.
With the demise of the bill and uncertainty over future immigration, some California companies may shift operations to other countries, Lofgren said. Microsoft announced plans Thursday to open a software development center in Vancouver, British Columbia, which would "allow the company to recruit and retain highly skilled people affected by the immigration issues in the U.S."
In 2006, Microsoft secured 3,117 H-1B visas for its workers - the third-highest total - according to the Department of Homeland Security.
Lou Gellos, a Microsoft spokesman, said immigration uncertainty was "an issue, but not the defining reason" for opening the Canada center.
Criticism has also mounted over abuses and fraud in the H-1B visa system.
Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., citing government surveys, said that "job shops" and other brokers were misusing the system to bypass U.S. workers, bring in foreign workers for substandard wages, and outsource some jobs.
"Our immigration policy should seek to complement our U.S. workforce, not replace it," Durbin said last month during the Senate debate.
System left in limbo
After behind-the-scenes negotiations, tech companies acceded to some of the proposals from Durbin and Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, to improve oversight and enforcement of the H-1B program by the Department of Labor. All companies would have to pledge to seek U.S. workers first for openings, and if an employer's visa-holders who are paid entry-level wages exceeded 30 percent of its workforce, a Labor Department audit would be automatic.
That agreement is now in limbo. If a serious push for an increase in visas makes progress, Durbin would want to include his proposals, an aide said.
Hoffman said tech representatives would agree to more enforcement "that is not punitive."
Lofgren, who represents tech executives and workers, said she could support "reforms and changes" in the visa system.
"It needs a good review - I've never thought that just increasing the numbers was in the cards," she said.
Contact Frank Davies at fdavies@mercurynews.com or (202) 662-8921.
more...
makeup caterpillar cartoon images.
newuser
11-17 07:44 PM
Done and sent to friends and colleagues
girlfriend cute caterpillar cartoon.
GCnew
11-30 05:41 PM
I have heard that getting a Canadian Green Card is faster. May be that is another alternative for you.
hairstyles happy caterpillar cartoon
english_august
07-09 01:01 PM
I ve sent the pdf to my local newspapers. She is interested in doing the story.
Pls call & talk to her : kcollins@newsobserver.com
Feel free to call/talk to her.
Pls call & talk to her : kcollins@newsobserver.com
Feel free to call/talk to her.
h1bmajdoor
09-30 12:59 PM
I have recently been talking to members who have already filed I485 and have used AC21 to change jobs. I noted some limitations people face while changing jobs, getting higher salaries, making use of AC21 for changing more than 1 job.. etc etc.
It seems there is lack of information on this subject. Let us use this thread to
- share expeiences
- List issues you have all faced so that IV can have this information while working on advocay efforts.
- Make others aware of your problems and do's and don'ts in the community.
- Interpretation of various lawyers on this and how they have helped you solve your difficult situations.
Hope this information will help everyone
AFAIK there is no "more than 1 job change" regulation. You can change as many times as you want.
There is no need to inform INS. If you wish to be _extra_ safe you may, but be aware that "any information you provide will be used against you". Don't try to be more patriotic than the king.
As far a salary goes, AFAIK you have to make as much as the LC requires you to.
The job description has to be "similar". I guess that means if you were writing C++, you can't start driving a truck.
It seems there is lack of information on this subject. Let us use this thread to
- share expeiences
- List issues you have all faced so that IV can have this information while working on advocay efforts.
- Make others aware of your problems and do's and don'ts in the community.
- Interpretation of various lawyers on this and how they have helped you solve your difficult situations.
Hope this information will help everyone
AFAIK there is no "more than 1 job change" regulation. You can change as many times as you want.
There is no need to inform INS. If you wish to be _extra_ safe you may, but be aware that "any information you provide will be used against you". Don't try to be more patriotic than the king.
As far a salary goes, AFAIK you have to make as much as the LC requires you to.
The job description has to be "similar". I guess that means if you were writing C++, you can't start driving a truck.
chanduv23
07-08 03:04 PM
The exchange between Chanduv and Desi3933 has been a refreshingly objective discussion and is a welcome change from the typical hyper-reactionary posts one sees more frequently in this forum.
One of the features of the fight for EB immigration reforms we all need to be cognizant of is - that most (99%) of the members are in this fight to solve an immediate personal problem (visa situation) in a timely manner - most of us are not in it because we believe it to be a cause larger than us and a cause that demands personal sacrifice - and hence the lack of collective passion (lukewarm responses to IV sponsored drives, donation efforts etc.)
While - many have tried to compare this cause to India's independence struggle or Gandhiji's movement in South Africa - but the fundamental difference is that in both these struggles - people who led the struggles led it at a personal cost (Gandhiji willingly gave away a lucrative career to take up the struggle and so did Nehru; Netaji Bose was a Civil Services Officer and gave it up) - even the vast majority of revolutionaries (Bhagat Singh et al) were college educated professionals who could easily have had nice careers in British India.........and therein lies the fundamental difference......not one of us would willingly give up what we have for this struggle - we are in it because we are stuck in a system and want some resolution.......as soon as our particular situation gets resolved...we move on....(maybe there are a few exceptions and hats off to these folks).........and hence Desi - the answer to your question why H1 does not care for F1 and EAD does not care for H1 and so on.......it is not a collective cause - it is just a collection of individual causes - thats all - we would be fooling ourselves if we had some other grandiose visions - calling this group a cause would be the same as calling passengers on a bus one group - they are in the same bus simply because they share a part of their journey - thats it
Well said. healthy discussions help introspect ourselves. In day to day life we seldom see people trying to be wise and good. At workplaces, there is no healthy discussion - all people do is to watch out their backs and talk accordingly - which leads to false perspectives. These days when we give a good advice to friends or someone they may not percieve it in a good way with a "stop preaching me - go help yourself" attitude.
One of the features of the fight for EB immigration reforms we all need to be cognizant of is - that most (99%) of the members are in this fight to solve an immediate personal problem (visa situation) in a timely manner - most of us are not in it because we believe it to be a cause larger than us and a cause that demands personal sacrifice - and hence the lack of collective passion (lukewarm responses to IV sponsored drives, donation efforts etc.)
While - many have tried to compare this cause to India's independence struggle or Gandhiji's movement in South Africa - but the fundamental difference is that in both these struggles - people who led the struggles led it at a personal cost (Gandhiji willingly gave away a lucrative career to take up the struggle and so did Nehru; Netaji Bose was a Civil Services Officer and gave it up) - even the vast majority of revolutionaries (Bhagat Singh et al) were college educated professionals who could easily have had nice careers in British India.........and therein lies the fundamental difference......not one of us would willingly give up what we have for this struggle - we are in it because we are stuck in a system and want some resolution.......as soon as our particular situation gets resolved...we move on....(maybe there are a few exceptions and hats off to these folks).........and hence Desi - the answer to your question why H1 does not care for F1 and EAD does not care for H1 and so on.......it is not a collective cause - it is just a collection of individual causes - thats all - we would be fooling ourselves if we had some other grandiose visions - calling this group a cause would be the same as calling passengers on a bus one group - they are in the same bus simply because they share a part of their journey - thats it
Well said. healthy discussions help introspect ourselves. In day to day life we seldom see people trying to be wise and good. At workplaces, there is no healthy discussion - all people do is to watch out their backs and talk accordingly - which leads to false perspectives. These days when we give a good advice to friends or someone they may not percieve it in a good way with a "stop preaching me - go help yourself" attitude.
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